Couch Soup logo

Joker Folie à Deux and the Tragedy of Not Feeling Good Enough

by: 
hello world!
Art of Lily K
| October 7, 2024
hello world!

The first Joker (2019) movie is a big favorite of mine. Joaquin Phoenix’s flawless performance is why he rightfully won all the awards. Did I think that it needed a second movie? No. Do I mind that there’s a follow-up now? No. Does it need to exist? Yes and no. 

Joker: Folie à Deux is a very interesting one for me. I love the first movie very dearly however the message this one delivers was so much more impactful in my eyes and yet… at the end of the day, I don’t think it’s a better movie than the first one. However, instead of mentioning all its flaws and shortcomings, let me tell you why the message of this film is so strong and important. 

Joker and Harley on stage

First of all, I would like to recommend Cinema Therapy’s Joker video to you. They made a deep dive into Joker’s story on a professional level, and they pointed out things that many people missed while watching the first movie. 

“What this film is is a call for kindness and compassion for the mentally ill. What it is NOT is a boogeyman story of and a cautionary tale of if you are unkind they will snap and kill you.” 

Jonathan Decker, Licensed therapist 

The first Joker movie holds a mirror up to society as a whole and how we treat people who are different. Many scenes emphasize this point. The moment he starts laughing uncontrollably, the woman on the bus – despite reading his card – pulls her kid away from him. Arthur Fleck is an incredibly lonely person who didn’t experience any real kindness in his life and as the story progresses, it seems clearer to him that he is alone. The whole Sophie storyline (Zazie Beetz) is a representation of this need for kindness and love. 

This second movie deals with the consequences of the first one but also becomes a perfect and heartbreaking showcase of what it feels like to be not good enough. It took me a little bit to understand what they were going for with the story as, at first, it felt like the usual court story. Arthur’s lawyer (Catherine Keener) is trying to build his case of having dual personalities. Therefore, Joker is a trauma response, while Harvey Dent (Harry Lawtey) argues that Joker is just a mask and Arthur is aware of what he is doing. And they could have left it as that and made a movie around this, but they went further with Lady Gaga’s Lee Quinzel. 

The Joker is me

Lee is fascinated with Arthur’s story. However, she doesn’t care about Arthur; she fully believes that the real version of Arthur is Joker, and he becomes his true self when he puts on the make-up. So, since Arthur experiences what he believes is real love for the first time, he goes along with Lee’s ideas and, to be fair, the crowd’s idea of him. He IS Joker. Arthur Fleck is weak without him. He fires his lawyer halfway through the case and the realization of what’s been happening to him doesn’t come until Gary Puddles (Leigh Gill) is called in as a witness. 

This was the scene that really got to me. If you don’t remember Gary, he is Arthur’s only colleague who was always kind to him, as he completely understood what it was like to be an outcast. Gary was constantly mocked for his dwarfism, and just as he was kind to Arthur, Arthur was always kind to him. However, he also had to witness Arthur brutally murdering their awful colleague Randall (Glenn Fleshler). 

So, when Gary is on the stand, Joker tries to make fun of him, at first, trying to play up this persona of his for the crowd that loves him so much. However, Gary tells him with a teary eye that he doesn’t recognize him anymore. Yes, Joker let him go after he killed Randall, but he left Gary with severe trauma. Of course, as Joker is unable to face the consequences of his own actions, he dismisses Gary and tells him that he should be grateful that he lives. The breaking point comes when Gary talks to Arthur… not Joker… but Arthur – telling him that he was the only one who was ever kind to him, that he didn’t understand why Arthur was like this, and how he could turn to this. This gets through to Arthur even if he doesn’t show it as much then and dismisses Gary again. Director Todd Phillips very smartly decided to leave the camera on Gary as he left the court and we can see how – not just traumatized – but hurt he is. 

Harley and Joker

So Arthur decides to drop the act as he tells his closing speech to the jury. He admits that he was well aware of his actions all along, and on top of it all, he committed another murder no one knew about. He also killed his mom by suffocating her with a pillow. Lee leaves the court, clearly disappointed by Arthur’s decision. And this is where the realization of what this movie is about truly hit home. 

The first movie was about how an incredibly lonely person was longing for kindness, compassion, acceptance, and love in an unkind and selfish world.

The second movie is the embodiment of not feeling good enough. For the crowd and Lee, Arthur is useless and non-existent; they want Joker – the Joker, who so boldly killed someone on live television and started a rebellion unknowingly. Joker became a symbol to many, so who cares about the nobody, Arthur Fleck? The lawyer wants Arthur to be Arthur, and she tries everything to tell him that Joker is not real; it’s just a manifestation of his trauma. So we are left with a man who is not only deeply traumatized from how his mother treated him when he was just a kid, but he is also scared that no one could see his authentic self and, on top of it, how no one could love him for who he truly is. 

Arthur was never gonna manifest fully into the Joker that we know from the comics because despite all that happened to him in the first film and through most of the second, all he searched and looked for was someone who accepted him. He spent so much time trying to fit into the picture that people wanted to frame him in, and slowly but surely, he lost who he was. Under Joker and under the broken person that Arthur was, he was kind and just wanted to bring joy to others. Obviously, this does not mean he should be forgiven for all the pain and suffering he caused, at the end of the day it was his decision to turn to violence and harm others. 

Smile though your heart is aching

Look. Everyone was already bashing on this movie, so I decided not to – even though I could. Yes, it is full of flaws; it’s all over the place, and arguably, it doesn’t need to exist. But I think what I wrote about in length is important to pay attention to. Not feeling good enough is such a big problem and pain for many. I certainly felt that way a lot. 

Gaga, Phoenix, and everyone in the cast are truly brilliant, and I am a bit sad that they are all feel a bit wasted here. The music choices are great, but they don’t add much to the story. 

The cinematography is on point again, and the atmosphere is hauntingly beautiful. 

Will I watch this movie again? Probably not. Does it need to exist? No… but I am a bit glad it does because the one thing it got right (and you just read through it) it truly got right. 

Gets a 5 out of 10 on the Couch Soup meter.

Hey fellow nerds! Before you dive back into that gaming session or start your next binge-watch, here’s the deal with Couch Soup: we’re a completely independent pop culture site run by genuine fans who get just as hyped as you do about the latest games, comics, movies, and TV shows. No corporate overlords, no AI-generated content, just real people who know their Metroid from their Mass Effect.

Unlike the big corporate sites, we don’t chase clicks or stir up drama. Sure, we might have some hot takes (looking at you, controversial season finale), but they come from a place of genuine passion and respect for the creators and fandoms we cover.

Want to support what we do and join what we think is the coolest community of pop culture enthusiasts on the internet? Check out our supporter tiers – each packed with perks that’ll level up your fandom experience. Every contribution helps keep us independent and lets us keep nerding out with you!

Thanks for being part of our quest – now, back to our regularly scheduled geekery!
Drew Lewis,
Editor-in-chief
Membership
Monthly
Yearly
Members Only Newsletter
5% Couch Soup Store Discount
Ability to Comment on Articles
Unlocked
Access to Couchsoup Community
Circle Forum
SIGN UP
Everything in free +
No Ads on the Site! Woohoo!
5% Couch Soup Store Discount
Monthly AMA chat with CouchSoup team members
Early access (up to 72hrs) to new
episodes
Access to exclusive members only
content (video & articles)
JOIN
Everything in free +
No Ads on the Site! Woohoo!
5% Couch Soup Store Discount
Monthly AMA chat with CouchSoup team members
Early access (up to 72hrs) to new
episodes
Access to exclusive members only
content (video & articles)
JOIN
Everything in free +
No Ads on the Site! Woohoo!
5% Couch Soup Store Discount
Monthly AMA chat with CouchSoup team members
Early access (up to 72hrs) to new
episodes
Access to exclusive members only
content (video & articles)
JOIN
Everything in free +
No Ads on the Site! Woohoo!
5% Couch Soup Store Discount
Monthly AMA chat with CouchSoup team members
Early access (up to 72hrs) to new
episodes
Access to exclusive members only
content (video & articles)
JOIN
Annual Membership
Everything in free +
No Ads on the Site! Woohoo!
5% Couch Soup Store Discount
Monthly AMA chat with CouchSoup team members
Early access (up to 72hrs) to new
episodes
Access to exclusive members only
content (video & articles)
JOIN
Annual Membership
Annual Membership
No Ads on the Site! Woohoo!
5% Couch Soup Store Discount
Monthly AMA chat with CouchSoup team members
Early access (up to 72hrs) to new
episodes
Access to exclusive members only
content (video & articles)
JOIN
Annual Membership
Everything in free +
No Ads on the Site! Woohoo!
5% Couch Soup Store Discount
Monthly AMA chat with CouchSoup team members
Early access (up to 72hrs) to new
episodes
Access to exclusive members only
content (video & articles)
JOIN
Annual Membership
Everything in free +
No Ads on the Site! Woohoo!
5% Couch Soup Store Discount
Monthly AMA chat with CouchSoup team members
Early access (up to 72hrs) to new
episodes
Access to exclusive members only
content (video & articles)
JOIN

About the Author

  • Art of Lily K

    Huge movie maniac and Captain America fan, Lily K is from Hungary. She was a gamer ever since she can remember who started out with Duck Hunt and grew up with all the classics. Uncharted proved to be a life-changing experience and made her into a Chloe Cosplayer, probably for life. Artist, actress and film buff, Lily K is here to spread all her knowledge to you.

Share This

0 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments

Comments are for members only. Sign up here to become a member for free.

Buffalo Puzzles Advertisement

Get our Newsletter!

Featured

Solo Leveling -ReAwakening- Review: More Than A Recap

Solo Leveling's debut film has hit the silver screen, but is this recap/sneak peek worth your time? Join Tom as he gives you his thoughts on Solo Leveling -ReAwakening-.
by Thomas RichardsDecember 21, 2024
1 2 3 874

Read more

Book Review – Bound by Alan Baxter

Rohan checks out fellow aussie Alan Baxter’s urban fantasy novel Bound to see if this novel’s as breathtaking and enjoyable as its blurb proclaimed. It’s got magic, monsters and cage fighting so if nothing else it looks to be a wild ride.
by Rohan ElliottSeptember 1, 2022 

Suicide Squad: Kill All Hope for Their Game

Suicide Squad: Kill The Justice League has met some negative press upon it’s release. Take a look at this review to see if it is justified.
1 2 3 239
© 2024 CouchSoup, LLC. All Rights Reserved
Terms of Service | Privacy
© 2024 CouchSoup, LLC. All Rights Reserved
Manage Cookie Settings chevron-down